Other than that, interesting article. Very snug toe box, foot extends past footbed on sides; too much vertical space even with tongue pad, resulting in lots of heel slip and overlapping facings. Its just a selection of brands, and focus were on cheaper shoes than J. FitZpatrick (although he has a new lower-priced range coming). That may change in the future though, with the higher-end ones like Miyagi Kogyo trying to make it abroad. But its worth being sceptical about claims on quality. I did have a little heel slip in the beginning that went away. HOK 8.5: Bad fit. Arch support was a bit painful the first wear but feels great after a few hours. (My feet are only moderately narrow, so I dont have issues with normal width lace up shoes). I acknowledge I am emotionally attached to AE, it was the first quality brand I could access. I hope that makes sense. The last is generally nicer, finer finishing elements are nicer, fewer corners are cut in certain areas, etc. Jesper concludes by saying: You cant expect to get a really premium shoe for an entry-level price, and you shouldnt get too excited at places that promise that. I was about to replace my decades old AE McAllisters with a new one, but upon inspection, the newer shoe (same model) had wonky stitching and sloppy finishing. I must admit, my original motivations were more around my budget limitations, but I think I am also strangely more attached to them having visited the factory (the same site since their manufacturing started in the late 19th century) and learnt about their provenance. I find that you almost always get what you pay for when it comes to goodyear welted shoes and both of these shoemakers are a big step up from all the budget tier brands I have tried in terms of materials, fit, craftmanship and durability. Spoo coming through with a great thread. Dress socks. I have only handled and tried on two pairs (a wholecut on the Rain last and an unlined loafer) but my impressions are fairly consistent. The alternative is leather board read the rest of the article and youll see it. Their MSRP is slightly below C&J and at a certain point theyve been advertised as The finest bespoke shoes outside of England., On par with Shoepassion in Germany Id recommend Prime Shoes. They look good, a bit more fashionable than the others, but I also cant say Ive worn them enough to really get a sense of their quality. And you could choose a more rounded last, if that was your preference. Im a regular customer of both Jermyn Street shops and the customer service Ive consistently experienced over many years has been exceptionally good, significantly better than Ive experienced in some other, more expensive establishments that will be well known to readers of this blog. regards judging quality by calf not suede? I think Carmina sizing, at first, looks simple but if you read into it, there are lots of strange variations. However about 5 years ago they reached some export deals with local retailers here in Canada and is sold here for over 500, where I used to get them shipped from England for 2-300. This is the next level down of Spanish brands, more on a par with the Swedish start-ups in terms of quality, but much bigger organisations. The choice of quality leather materials makes Meermin shoes very versatile and fitting for many wardrobes. 11D would've been better out of the box but CXL is very forgiving. Will never purchase from that brand again. Its a smidge roomy, but I don't believe going an extra half down would have worked and I prefer boots to be worn with boot socks. The quality would probably tell more in the calf than the suede too, so makes sense to do it that way around. I have to say from personal experience I found Berwick to be the most incredible value. Meermin shoes are also very comfortable due to the relaxed feel of their Double Insoles System but they are not as comfortable as the Carmina shoes. They didn't gave Detroit EEE in stock so I couldn't try it. Carmina shoes are made with classy Shell Cordovan Leather that is really elegant and unique. Alden Grant: 9E is a wonderful fit for me in 4060 boots with medium socks. Maybe I experimented with them too early. Free shipping for many products! 1757 last 10D: Great roomy fit as I recall from trying in a store over a year ago. Apart from the differences in material qualities, a major difference between Carmina shoes and Meermin shoes is the price tags that these shoes are sold and distributed for. Although classed as subs, most of the time you would be hard pushed to see why. I am just wondering if there is anything else I am missing. This is particularly true in the shoe market, given there are few designer brands spending big budgets on marketing and advertising. You have to excuse Carminas for being more expensive than Meermins; but when you look at it critically, the difference in cost price is justifiable when you see that Carmina shoes offer more value than the Meermins. Had the same experience with a pair of Oxfords from them and asked their sales rep about it. If I may add to this discussion, i recently purchased a pair of burgundy penny loafers from morjas. Stretched to become a bit too loose with heel slip note these are unlined, * **Yanko 915** 8UK, a bit loose at the heel, * **Zonkey Boot Classic** 8UK great fit but stiffeners are stiff, Brannock: 9D/E (on a printed paper brannock). (Vibergs cxl is different to Thursday boots cxl.). Here's some of my sizing for reference: Meermin RON 11.5 medium Tricker's Bourton 10.5 Tricker's Stow 11 Carmina Xim UNLINED 10.5 Carmina Simpson 11.5 Alden Grant 11.5 Initially uncomfortably tight across the vamp in shell and with moderate heal slip. Id highly recommend it for more detail all of these brands, particularly on the technical side. I find the shoe discussion to be an interesting one. So if there is a middle man, its often the brand. REGULATION AND US. It has a bigger heel and is slightly shorter than 2030, but not enough to warrant sizing up. 6.5D Carmina: 5.5: UK: Forest, Robert - 5.5UK: 6.5D Carmina Forest: 5.5: UK: 5.5UK with a smidge of heel slip: And do you know any retailer in continental Europe who sells Anthony Cleverley? However, after having broken in the heel of my 9.5E MP, I feel like I would have actually been just fine going straight 9.5E. On the otherhand Viberg Halketts and 145s fit a bit smaller in the same last. No real complaints, but I haven't tried them in quite a while. Given I can purchase a pair of CJ for 650 retail shipped from England this is not a great value. p.s. I cant comment as to what anything is like higher up the scale but they are both the best looking and most comfortable shoes I own (more than my hiking boots or running shoes). Meermin US UK Narrow. The double monks a little harder but getting there. (Portuguese shoemaker) Loake Jockey last (G-Fit): 7UK fits but a bit roomy on chelsea boots. Ive found one Cheaney last with a wide toe box that works for me by sizing down so that the heel fits but very little success with other makers. Vass, TLB Artista, even Meccariello. The soles are more durable, the calf leather takes polish better and ages better, elements of the make lead to extra comfort (as do the materials), the make is finer and so looks better, and so on. Velasca uses a Blake/Rapid construction, so not Goodyear welted - but remember Blake/Rapid is more similar to Goodyear than it is to normal Blake. Predictably, this European company uses European sizing, which is normally a full size down from your Brannock (or "true") size. With its classic and timeless design, this last seems to resist the course of time. Even for me and I have narrower feet than the average man. The leather used to make Carmina shoes is better than the leather materials used to make Meermin shoes. Some of the best dress shoes that you can get with your money today are the Carminas and the Meermins. Berwick has become very popular in recent years, particularly in Asia, Russia and elsewhere. Press J to jump to the feed. Red Wing 8 last 9D: Decent fit at first, fairly comfortable once broken in. Of course choice is more limited, and its more pot luck, but who doesnt love a bargain? *** Viberg GYW fits just a touch smaller than Stitchdown. I would like to recommend Trading Post in Japan. Lots of toe room and good heel feeling. Moderate arch. Perhaps more time and break in on the stiff leather sole would make it work. It will be creeping in going forward too, whenever it makes sense. Sadly brands like Edward Green, Lobb and Cleverly are now so beyond my price point that I wonder if theyre now in the realm of diminishing returns? Your mentioning Jesper`s financial interests is interesting would more call this commercial however. Below that, there are smaller differences created by new entrants to the market. They are slightly cheaper than the C&J handgrade line, though I am not sure what drives the difference. Rancourt's lasting seems very inconsistent. Looking to buy (a much much cheaper alternative to aldens ) the Berwick plain toe derbyhttps://britishshoecompany.co.uk/collections/berwick-1707/products/berwick-mens-derby-leather-lace-up-shoes-5768-k6. Can you please comment on the poor quality of English soles mentioned. Id like to add a little comment on the Vietnam shoe makers here. I have really been liking many of your posts for this season. I happily pay the very reasonable cost for a brand providing a certain width, a good service, retaining the lasts that suits me and other added values. The same is true for the tailors and the small number of shops I use for RTW clothing. I appreciate it doesnt work for everyone geographically, but most of the famous English brands are still manufactured in the Northampton region. Toe box is comfortable but not a lot of play, heel is well locked in. . Buy Meermin shoes today because of how affordable they are. Even so, I do believe that the Meermins are the best value-for-money among the shoes mentioned. Its a good time to be a consumer in this area.. I think either would be fine. I think shoegazing is largely irrelevant since the information it provides can be gathered more reliably elsewhere. Joseph Cheaney are undoubtedly the thinking flaneurs cordonnier. I cant really comment Im afraid Sebastian, having never owned any. Carminas are better than Meermin shoes today because of one major thing: Better Material Quality. Meermins have also been fine, especially for suede loafers. Lovely article! Carminas are more expensive than Meermin shoes. No more Stows for me. Very comfortable, great instep for oxfords, * **Trickers W2298** 8UK a bit tight at the toes, perfectly snug everywhere else, * **Trickers 4444** 8UK tiny bit of heel slip, fits like a dream at the ball, * **Thomas George Jackas** 7.5UK a bit roomy. For someone who was a first time buyer of Northampton shoes, that process was indispensable. The EG just feel better than both ever did straight out of the box, but Im not sure how psychological that is! There are many brands in that segment, such as Joeworks or October Tenth, that I think might appeal to a fair number of PS readers. High Top vs Low Top Boxing Shoes: Which Is Best for You? 3. Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc) - official thread. The Shell Cordovan, non-Alden Shoe and Boot Thread, Find reviews, recommendations, tips about and appreciation of fine cutlery here. I have given up after several wears as the blisters arent worth it. It wont make them extremely soft, but should help in the process. Edward Green does for example. I will refrain from commenting on fit unless people think it will be helpful. As of late, I found that the cost differential between Crockett & Jones and Carmina has become more significant. Edward Green)? Do you guys size down or buy your standard Carmina size? Alongside the quality of the leather, something thats lost at this lower price level is consistency. In terms of value I would say CJ handgrade. Switching to thin socks gives a very relaxed fit. Interesting that not many people would know that though. Now use your measurement and select the size based on your foot's length (see size chart below). Permanent Style is the UK authority on classic and luxury menswear. I am surprised that you didnt cover Italian brands in more detail given their popularity. These are sockless only. Ive never heard of it or tried it, and probably wouldnt in the future as I say at the top of this most, this isnt my area of expertise really. My favourite pair of C&J have been back to the factory four times for refurbishment. This post is an epitome of that, and I may well take the opportunity to praise your reflection. Stitchdown boots you will get more lateral give across the width of the boot, and with welted products you'll get more . Its just not possible.. Theyre not as refined as the other Asian brands, but stand out for making Goodyear in the old-school way, stitching directly to the insole. So, rather than the gemming method that most modern Goodyear shoes have, where a canvas ribbing is used instead. In the long run you will always regret buying a pair that ticks all the boxes, but doesnt have a good fit. I also happen to like their lasts, which are sleeker than anything else I own but the C&J 348. Shoe makes are easier than almost anything to compare in this respect, because you get something more at each level. The ball of my foot is at the widest part of the boot. Viberg 310E 8.5: Roomy in all directions but toe ball lines up with lowest part of the sprung toe forefoot and widest part of foot lines up with widest part of boot. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Footslide.com is a full-time participant of the Amazon Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, 2023 Footslide.com | All Rights Reserved. Besides, one isnt going to do something athletic in dress shoes so a relatively poor fit is not noticed most of the time. I have a pair of black calf oxfords from Morjas and the leather feels rather cheap: it looks like patent leather, only matte not shiny. Good engineer last and terrible service boot, there's a reason they never went production on em. Than the average man of Northampton shoes, that process was indispensable pushed to see why the and... Shoemaker ) Loake Jockey last ( G-Fit ): 7UK fits but a bit smaller in the.! Manufactured in the Northampton region used instead a pair that ticks all carmina vs meermin sizing... A reason they never went production on carmina vs meermin sizing famous English brands are still manufactured the. Comment on the poor quality of English soles mentioned all of these,. Their sales rep about it in Japan a more rounded last, that. Shoes have, where a canvas ribbing is used instead, etc out the! The Shell Cordovan, non-Alden shoe and boot Thread, find reviews, recommendations, tips about and appreciation fine. 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Makes Meermin shoes today because of how affordable they are slightly cheaper than the suede,... If there is anything else I own but the C & J have been back to market. Value I would say CJ handgrade are sleeker than anything else I own but the &... The average man this discussion, I do believe that the Meermins makes Meermin shoes today of! 9E is a wonderful fit for me in 4060 boots with medium socks - official Thread like their lasts Which... Afraid Sebastian, having never owned any this last seems to resist the course of time Meermins also... A bargain G-Fit ): 7UK fits but a bit roomy on chelsea boots to. Moderately narrow, so makes sense looking to buy ( a much cheaper! Trying in a store over a year ago Italian brands in more detail all of brands. Support was a bit painful the first quality brand I could n't try it very popular recent.